Greatest international XV since rugby turned professional
Posted by | Posted in Rugby Debates | Posted on 01-10-2009
I stumbled across this article on Planet Rugby and thought it made for an interesting debate, given current form of rugby teams etc. not sure which nation ‘owns’ the site, so don’t know if/where any ‘bias’ in decisions would come from:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_5592556,00.html
15 Christian Cullen (New Zealand) - Nobody has yet mastered the art of surreptitiously slipping into an attacking line and then tearing out of it for a score like the former Hurricane and Munsterman. Unbelievable pace was hidden in this long and languid stride that left you gaping every time.
14 Doug Howlett (New Zealand) - The record Super 14 try-scorer, New Zealand’s record try-scorer… that’s the kind of guy you want on the wing.
13 Brian O’Driscoll (Ireland) - Europe’s rugby statesman finally added the Heineken Cup and a Grand Slam to an already-impressive list of achievements last season. Good enough to re-invent his game after age sapped his pace, he has become one of the all-round greatest ever.
12 Tana Umaga (New Zealand) - Ironic, considering his partner is the man who accused Umaga of crocking him out of a Lions series with a spear tackle. But it’s the same Umaga who rushed to Colin Charvis’ aid when the latter had been knocked out on New Zealand turf, and who once famously responded to a refereeing call of heavy no-arm tackling: “we’re not playing tiddlywinks here mate!”
11 Rupeni Caucaunibuca (Fiji) - How can you leave out Jonah and Bryan Habana, never mind Shane Williams or even Christophe Dominici!? But the Fijian with the flawed temperament did things on a rugby field that nobody else will probably ever do. Just put his name into You Tube and watch.
10 Dan Carter (New Zealand) - a three-way tie between Carter, Wilkinson and Stephen Larkham if we were honest. But the team needed a goal-kicker as well as a playmaker, so Carter’s total points were just higher than the other two. The greatest ever?
9 Gus Pichot (Argentina) - Again, how do you leave out Gregan, who has the most Test caps of any player, or the scintillating Joost? But Pichot brought qualities to scrum-half play, so often in adversity and so often with the extra responsibility of leadership through the adversity, that neither of the others had. We always wonder what his talents would have done for a team like New Zealand, but his rugby is so responsible for Argentina’s accession to senior Test status that we’d not have it any other way.
8 Lawrence Dallaglio (England) - Another close-run thing, with Sergio Parisse snapping at Dallaglio’s heels, but the Italian’s blotted disciplinary copybook - we know Lol is no angel, but he never gouged - saw him relegated to second. And let’s face it, would you not like to go into battle with Dallaglio on your side?
7 (openside) Richie McCaw (New Zealand) - Undoubtedly the greatest exponent of openside play there has been. George Smith deserves a mention, and maybe Heinrich Brussow will eclipse McCaw in a few years, but until then the All Black captain is in a class of his own.
6 Richard Hill (England) - The most unsung of all English rugby heroes, but he’d have it no other way. If you didn’t see him much, it was he was forever at the bottom of the ruck, putting limb and digit where others feared to put but many trod…
5 Martin Johnson (England) - The biggest, darkest and most brooding of the driving forces behind England’s World Cup win. We reckon the moment when he hoisted Bill was the first time he had smiled on a rugby pitch! Now bringing that menace to England’s national team, Johnno takes the captain’s armband in this team as well.
4 John Eales (Australia) - This one will have Saffers everywhere raging; how can we leave out Victor and Bakkies? Because Johnno’s meaner than Bakkies, and because Victor was not nicknamed ‘Nobody’ as Eales was (because Nobody’s perfect), despite his obvious talents. We felt Eales offered perhaps just a little more grunt. We’re now running for cover…
3 Carl Hayman (New Zealand) - This one was much easier. Hayman has been peerless at tighthead for some time now - New Zealand still miss him.
2 John Smit (South Africa) - Has now won every honour going in the game except for the Super 14. We know he plays tighthead now, but for a solid anchor in the scrum, an extra dose of leadership and some pinpoint line-out throwing, Smit’s the man - just edging out Rafa Ibañez.
1 Rodrigo Roncero (Argentina) - The Argentine beefcake was so close to being our player of the 2007 Rugby World Cup after a series of stellar performances. Discipline remains an issue, but you’d be hard-pushed to find a number one in the world who has contributed so much so regularly to his team’s loose play.
I have a few things L’ld like to add firstly:
Christian cullen - undesputedly the best attacking fullback in history, in my humble inexperienced opinion. Set the world alight, almost literally! No other fullback has done on the field what that maestro did.
I think that Os du Rant deserves at least a mention at loosehead…outstanding player for a front rower.
I think Sean Fitz and Zinzan Brooke deserve mentions for their short stint in the professional era.
Habana and Victor Matfield both deserve mentions, I’d have said it was a close call between Matfield and Eales. Johnno, you couldn’t really leave him out and I’d like to see him and Bakkies match up for enforcer of the decade award.
Richard Hill and Lawrence Dellaglio? I am seriously not sure about these two. George Smith and others like Michael Jones and co come to mind. Gary Teichman, leader and player, Zinzan et al. How do you even mention Sergio Parrisse when he’s only recently come about?
Interesting point here, Aussie and SA have 2 RWC’s, yet either of them only has 1 representitive?
Anyways, just some thoughts to get the debate going: lets crack it on gents!
Loading ...
What about Luke Watson?!!?!?!?
If you going with Luke Watson Fraz then we may as well throw in Ricky Januarie at number 9!!!!!
Starting in the front row, I do not even know this Roncero guy to be honest and as BP said, OS has to be in that lineup. I guess Smit is at hooker because of his leadership qualities but I personally would have opted for Keith Wood!
The locks are always going to be debatable as Matfield has to somehow be in that lineup but Eales and Johnson are no slouches. They have both lifted the WC but so to has Matfield. Where they are both better than Matfield is in their leadership abilities. I will always say that I do not believe Matfield is a great leader especially at test level.
When I saw the loosies selection I had a laugh. I can bet you this list was done by some English chaps. How can you not pick Rib Cribb at number 8????????
For me number 9 is a no brainer and it just has to be Gregan. I really have no faults with the rest of the backline.
My oh my, this list was clearly compiled somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere, where a group of british writers decided to go down memory lane but in so doing, could not look past the 2003 Rugby World Cup!!!!
How on earth does the best XV since 1996 include all of 3 English players from an era that dominated world rugby for between 2001 and 2003? This list is such a joke I was in tears from laughter. I beg to differ from all of the posts so far. If anything I would like to propose a much better and more balanced side than this, this list is so crazy I could come up with atleast 2 other teams that could dismantle this so called “Great” side. So for the purposes of illustrating how weak this side is, i will mention an A and a B side (in brackets).
1)Os Du Randt (Tony Woodcock)
2)Sean Fitspatrick (Keith Wood)
3)Carl Hayman (Euan Murray)
4)Martin Johnson (Bakkie Botha)
5)Victor Matfield (John Eales)
6)Josh Cronfeld ( Michael Jones)
7)Richie McCaw (George Smith)
8)Zinzan Brook (Sergio Parisse)
9)George Gregan (Fourie Du Preez)
10)Dan Carter (Johnny Wilkinson)
11)Jonah Lomu (Brian Habana)
12)Tana Umaga (Tim Horan)
13)Brian O Driscoll (Stirling Mortlock)
14)Rupeni Caucaunibuca (Shane Williams)
15)Christian Cullen ( Mathew Burke)
My oh my, this list was clearly compiled somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere, where a group of british writers decided to go down memory lane but in so doing, could not look past the 2003 Rugby World Cup!!!!
How on earth does the best XV since 1996 include all of 3 English players from an era that dominated world rugby for between 2001 and 2003? This list is such a joke I was in tears from laughter. I beg to differ from all of the posts so far. If anything I would like to propose a much better and more balanced side than this, this list is so crazy I could come up with atleast 2 other teams that could dismantle this so called “Great” side. So for the purposes of illustrating how weak this side is, i will mention an A and a B side (in brackets).
1)Os Du Randt (Tony Woodcock)
2)Sean Fitspatrick (Keith Wood)
3)Carl Hayman (Euan Murray)
4)Martin Johnson (Bakkie Botha)
5)Victor Matfield (John Eales)
6)Josh Cronfeld ( Michael Jones)
7)Richie McCaw (George Smith)
8)Zinzan Brook (Sergio Parisse)
9)George Gregan (Fourie Du Preez)
10)Dan Carter (Johnny Wilkinson)
11)Jonah Lomu (Brian Habana)
12)Tana Umaga (Tim Horan)
13)Brian O Driscoll (Stirling Mortlock)
14)Rupeni Caucaunibuca (Shane Williams)
15)Christian Cullen ( Mathew Burke)
i think guru and ron have hit the money there, there’s no way those englishmen have come anywhere near close to the hights of these other players. what a frigging joke. the world has been blessed with many great locks and its hard to pick, wont lose much in terms of play but i’d still have gone with eales over matfield. similar in the lose but eales adds that leadership and the extra kicking option if carter is off form…!
wow, what a team. i’d be scared to see these guys play together. and baring fitz and zinzane, most of them could actually play today as a world XV…how scary is that???
ron - dont agree with ronus cribus mate…he was a flash in the pan, not enough at test level to even be considered bro. sick skills and him and troy flavell were the ‘badboys’ of ABs in their time together, but sadly both faded after short spells in the AB jumper.
couldnt leave out gregan, hard to leave out a player with the most caps and do what he’s done and achieved, unbelievable. even if not the best scrummy ever (marshall and joost both eclipsed him at some stage in their careers) but he lasted the longest and kept going. has to be one of the all time greats up there with fitz and other legends of older times
Guru! For once we are in agreement. That team that you named is perfect except for one thing, eales in over matfield!
I agree with your second team as well but I would opt for Howlett over Habana any day of the week!
Eish…that first team is SCARY!!!!
I quote “People calling for Gregan must be having a laugh as all he was is a deluxe Peter Stringer. Offered very little as a threat around the base of the scrum and i think i can count on one hand the times i saw him make a break. Du Preez and Phillips (if he keeps going) will also be up there challenging for the sh berth one day.” Manny I knew you would call in Gregan, No No chap!!
LOL…Manny, ofcourse you would think that Eales is better than Matfield. I have gone with Big Vic coz in my opinion he is the best Lineout jumoer the rigby world has ever seen. No other jumper has dominated oppositions the way he has. He even coaches other coaches on how to run lineouts. Have a look at the SARugby mag for October 2009. Most coaches will tell you that he is in a league of his own. As for Howlett over Habana, Habana certainly has more accolades both for teams and as an individual. Habana has achieved much more in a sorter space of time and he is still going hey.
problem is that vic has NOOOOOO competition, not only coz he’s so good but also coz others are sooooo kak….when eales played there were at least some people half decent competing in the lineouts as well…these days there’s hardly anyone. Vic’s defencive lineouts are what sets him apart, but from a leadership perspective and kicking option, id go with eales as well…that and 2 RWC’s vs 1 (so far for Vic)
personally dont rate howlett, but you cant deny his s14 and all black try scoring records…those stand for themselves…pity the team couldnt rake in the RWCs to be as ‘good’ as habana…!
rupeni is lucky to be there, but is def in a class of his own and the world is less of a place without his mercurial runs, i’d even say he eclipses/ed cullen with his runs man…unbelievable. i remember watching him round caleb ralph like the guy was in reverse, while caleb wasnt blitz he was no slouch. you dont play over 100 games for the crusaders on the wing if you’re a slouch!!
Gregan should be there. His impact on the game is immense. Rupeni is a special case and thats why he’s there. had he played more E.A. would have named a videogame after him. Vic vs eales could be a toss up but eales should get the nod as he was a brilliant leader and competent goalkicker.
GURU i would replace martin johnsen with eales if its for leadership, you have three enforcers to vics finesse on both your teams, so eales and vic would get the nod for me.
rupeni does not have a right to be onthis list, simply put his achievements do not merit it and you are all basing his inclusion on a very short highlight reel gents. you missed probably the greatest winger of all time in David campese ( he played in the ‘95 world cup alongside tim horan and if i’m not mistaken that was the beginning of the professional era) Campese should be on there ahead of everyone you can think off.
i would also put taine randall in his favored position of understudy to zinzan brooke as he did for so many years, he was light years better than sergio parisse.
my 2 cents tho late as they are, boyz (bp, guru, ron, maki, manny,fraz, etc) its been too long.
Kambas, i left out Campese becasue I thought he would not be aligible for selection. I am not sure he played in 1995 mate, did he not retire around 1993/1994? Besides, I think Rugby only went pro in 1996/1997. But I agree, if Campo is eligible, mos def, he would slot in. Another name we seem to have forgotten is Jeff Wilson, that’s another classy winger!
wat about lomu